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Re: New Tribe - For a Gold Standard
Thu, January 12, 2006 - 11:21 PM"Gold bugs believe in the radical notion that currency must be backed by hard assets or else it is doomed to return to its intrinsic value - ZERO"
and what is the 'intrinsic' value of gold?
or the thing that elevates paper currency
beyong its own 'intrinsic value' of zero?
how does it relate to anarchy? -
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Re: New Tribe - For a Gold Standard
Fri, January 13, 2006 - 9:20 AMWhen the US prints more money, each dollar is worth less. It's a form of theft. It's bad for the economy.
Lack of a government does not necessarily mean that paper currency will disappear either. If a printer can guarantee that his paper money will not become worthless, then it will be useful as a trade item and people may want it. One way to do this would be to back it with gold. -
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Re: New Tribe - For a Gold Standard
Sat, January 14, 2006 - 10:26 PMthat dosnt really answer my question - -
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Re: New Tribe - For a Gold Standard
Sun, January 15, 2006 - 11:12 AM>>and what is the 'intrinsic' value of gold?
Nothing has intrinsic value
>>or the thing that elevates paper currency beyong its own 'intrinsic value' of zero?
that "thing" is aka as "the people"
>>how does it relate to anarchy?
Lack of a government does not necessarily mean that paper currency will disappear either. If a printer can guarantee that his paper money will not become worthless, then it will be useful as a trade item and people may want it. One way to do this would be to back it with gold.
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Re: New Tribe - For a Gold Standard
Mon, January 16, 2006 - 7:05 AM<< Nothing has intrinsic value >>
what a shame that you live in such a world -
most capitalists ive met live there too -
In my world - beauty has intrinsic value
a gold ring for my lover is beyond price -
your vault full of gold bars is dead and worthless though -
have fun protecting it from the masses -
it cant last long . . . -
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Re: New Tribe - For a Gold Standard
Mon, January 16, 2006 - 7:16 AM[quote]
what a shame that you live in such a world -
most capitalists ive met live there too -
In my world - beauty has intrinsic value
a gold ring for my lover is beyond price -
your vault full of gold bars is dead and worthless though - have fun protecting it from the masses -
it cant last long . . . [/quote]
Your response indicates to me that you don't understand the issue. -
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Re: New Tribe - For a Gold Standard
Mon, January 16, 2006 - 8:53 AM>> Your response indicates to me that you don't understand the issue. >>
and your response has done nothing to elucidate the issue -
my response was not directed at the issue of "the gold standard" it was directed at margaret's sad notion that "nothing has intrinsic value"
How about you educate me.
Who would hold the gold that backed the paper currency?
And who's police force would protect it?
(would they be the same mercinaries who protect the overseas sweatshops (from the workers) in Margaret's global "Anarcho-Capitalist" empire?)
and how does this arraingement relate to anarchy? -
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Re: New Tribe - For a Gold Standard
Mon, January 16, 2006 - 9:51 AM>>my response was not directed at the issue of "the gold standard" it was directed at margaret's sad notion that "nothing has intrinsic value"<<
Nothing has intrinsic value. Somebody has to give something value. A beautiful sunset has value because people enjoy it. It can't be sold, but you'll forego something else for it or pay a lot of money to see a particular sunset. If there's no one around to enjoy it, what value does the sunset have?
>>(would they be the same mercinaries who protect the overseas sweatshops (from the workers) in Margaret's global "Anarcho-Capitalist" empire?)<<
Maybe we'll buy off the assassins from your diversity-free "an"Soc nightmare? Are we through with unproductive insults? Thanks.
>and how does this arraingement relate to anarchy?<<
Unless you are implying that all trade will cease in the Anarchy, then you have got to expect that the people will seek ways to make trading easier. Money--whether it is beads, paper, gold, or salt--has been a traditional way to make trading much easier. -
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: New Tribe - For a Gold Standard
Mon, January 16, 2006 - 10:41 AM[quote]Unless you are implying that all trade will cease in the Anarchy, then you have got to expect that the people will seek ways to make trading easier. Money--whether it is beads, paper, gold, or salt--has been a traditional way to make trading much easier. [/quote]
Couldn't have said it better myself - Gold is money. And, you don't need a government to control the creation of money. For example - in the past, goldsmiths held gold deposited by people and created paper money backed by gold.
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: New Tribe - For a Gold Standard
Mon, January 16, 2006 - 12:04 PM>> Unless you are implying that all trade will cease in the Anarchy, then you have got to expect that the people will seek ways to make trading easier. Money--whether it is beads, paper, gold, or salt--has been a traditional way to make trading much easier. >>
I never implied any thing of the sort -
i only asked "why gold?"
and havent heard why yet -
of course i know the answer -
tradition - and the fact that its scarcity makes it easy to controll -
but i fail to see how this relates to anarchy -
david has already conceded that is does not -
so i guess this discussion is over . . . -
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Re: New Tribe - For a Gold Standard
Mon, January 16, 2006 - 12:34 PM>>i only asked "why gold?"<<
Gold retains it's value because of it's rarity. You just can't plant more gold trees to get more gold next year. It's possible that someone might notice Mt Whitney is just a giant lump of gold and then the price of gold would drop precipitously, but the chances of that are slim. The people could also decide they hate gold and the price would drop, but again the chances are slim since gold has other uses. For thousands of years, it has been a very reliable tool. You could use another precious metal if you like.
I've told you serveral times how it relates to Anarchy. Why do you dodge my answer repeatedly?
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Re: New Tribe - For a Gold Standard
Mon, January 16, 2006 - 12:48 PM>> Gold retains it's value because . . . >>
yes - i already said this myself . . .
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Re: New Tribe - For a Gold Standard
Mon, January 16, 2006 - 12:50 PM>> I've told you serveral times how it relates to Anarchy
what you keep repeating is that even an anarchist socity would need currency -
but you have not explained why an anarchist socity would need currency backed by gold - -
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Re: New Tribe - For a Gold Standard
Mon, January 16, 2006 - 3:10 PM[quote]but you have not explained why an anarchist socity would need currency backed by gold [/quote]
Because of the properties of gold that make it suited to metal. Gold doesn't have to be the currency of choice. You could trade other things as currency. The main point for choosing gold is that it is the most suited metal for trade -- with fitting properties such as divisability, durability and rarity.
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Re: New Tribe - For a Gold Standard
Mon, January 16, 2006 - 3:06 PM[quote]david has already conceded that is does not -
so i guess this discussion is ... more ยป [/quote]
Actually I did not. I said it mostly applies to a system where government plays a minimal role but can also work in a system in a state of anarchy - of course the anarchy would require that trade be made possible mainly through a respect of moral law. -
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Re: New Tribe - For a Gold Standard
Mon, January 16, 2006 - 7:20 PMwhat you said is
"A gold standard more accurately relates to libertarianism and minarchism. "
more accurately than what?
i assumed you to mean "more accurately than it realtes to anarchism -
was i wrong? -
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Re: New Tribe - For a Gold Standard
Mon, January 16, 2006 - 7:38 PM[quote]what you said is
"A gold standard more accurately relates to libertarianism and minarchism. "
more accurately than what?
i assumed you to mean "more accurately than it realtes to anarchism -
was i wrong?
[/quote]
The reason why I stated that a gold standard more accurately related to minarchism and libertarianism is because those systems rely on government for law and some centralized administration. For whatever reason, if part of this centralized administration includes a system of currency, the only system which prevents inflationism - or essentially legalized fraud - is a system which is backed by gold or another hard asset.
In an anarchy, there would be no centralized administration, thus reliance on gold could occur mostly thanks to Gershum's law. In other words, a gold standard doesn't really apply to anarchy since there are no standards - there are no decrees by government since there is no government. -
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Re: New Tribe - For a Gold Standard
Mon, January 16, 2006 - 10:32 PM<< In other words, a gold standard doesn't really apply to anarchy since there are no standards - >>
this is the point that i said you had conceded but you denied a few posts ago - - -
i dont get it . . . . -
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Re: New Tribe - For a Gold Standard
Tue, January 17, 2006 - 1:04 AM[quote]
this is the point that i said you had conceded but you denied a few posts ago - - -
i dont get it . . .
[/quote]
You don't get it because you arn't paying attention to the subtlties.
Minarchism - gold standard
...Versus...
Anarcy - no official gold standard - but may use gold as a default standard
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Re: New Tribe - For a Gold Standard
Mon, January 16, 2006 - 9:08 AMYou just like to argue for its own sake, huh?
>>In my world - beauty has intrinsic value
a gold ring for my lover is beyond price -<<
In other words, you (part of "the people") gave it its value.
>>your vault full of gold bars is dead and worthless though -
have fun protecting it from the masses -
it cant last long . .<<
Why would the masses want to have something dead and worthless? Oh...because they consider it valuable. -
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Re: New Tribe - For a Gold Standard
Mon, January 16, 2006 - 11:57 AM>> You just like to argue for its own sake, huh?
actually - yes i like to argue -
if you dont - why did you try to
answer a question that was asked of someone else?
last time you replied to my posts here it was the same thing -i asked questions - you dodged them and provided
non-answers - like your comment about
my "diversity-free "an"Soc nightmare?" -
LOLOlOlOl
where did you get that?
you dont know anything about me - -
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Re: New Tribe - For a Gold Standard
Mon, January 16, 2006 - 12:25 PM>>last time you replied to my posts here it was the same thing -i asked questions - you dodged them and provided
non-answers - like your comment about
my "diversity-free "an"Soc nightmare?" -
LOLOlOlOl
where did you get that?
you dont know anything about me<<
I don't like arguing, but I like helping people understand difficult concepts. I answered your questions twice, very nicely, TO HELP YOU understand something that you seemed to have some interest in. It was not to argue with you. The second time in a little bit more detail than the first because you didn't seem to like the first answer, which was fine. I didn't mind that. Then, you answered with a poetic statement and a little barb against people who store money. Then your next post contains a very nasty remark about my "empire" and again you asked a question I have already answered. Then you expect me NOT to give you the same crap you just gave me. If you don't like stupid insults DONT dish them out. Okay?
It's a pretty safe bet to assume someone who is agitated by anarcho-capitalism and money is probably a socialist. You are welcome at any time to illuminate us as to what economic system you prefer.
You claim I dodge your questions when I copy them and answer them? Those are non-answers? What about them did you not like? -
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: New Tribe - For a Gold Standard
Mon, January 16, 2006 - 12:47 PM>> Then your next post contains a very nasty remark about my "empire" and again you asked a question I have already answered. >>
this was not a "nasty remark" - it was based on discussions i have had with you in the past -
where you advocated the use of violence and force to protect corporate property-
in short - the use of mercinaries to protect an "empire"
its right here in your own words -
ancap.tribe.net/thread/726...81e0fda9c0d
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Re: New Tribe - For a Gold Standard
Mon, January 16, 2006 - 4:15 PMPlease don't insult both our intelligences by pretending that "empire" and "mercenaries" weren't meant to be insults.
>>what you keep repeating is that even an anarchist socity would need currency -
but you have not explained why an anarchist socity would need currency backed by gold -<<
Money makes trading easier. They might think paper money is easier to carry and use than coin. Try having to carry 3000 ounces of gold from the bank to wherever you are going to trade it and you'll see the advantage of paper money quite clearly. Backing the paper money with gold guarantees that the value of the paper money change wildly. -
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Re: New Tribe - For a Gold Standard
Mon, January 16, 2006 - 10:36 PM<< Please don't insult both our intelligences by pretending that "empire" and "mercenaries" weren't meant to be insults. >>
maybe you are too sensitve -
they were meant to critical - yes -
but not insulting -
you stated in an earler thread that you advocate these things - and think that are somehow in keeping with anarchism -
I disagree . . . -
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Re: New Tribe - For a Gold Standard
Tue, January 17, 2006 - 7:33 AMIf I advocate "empire" you advocate "totalitarianism". That's not an insult it's a criticism. Can we end this stupidity once and for all? Thanks. -
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Re: New Tribe - For a Gold Standard
Tue, January 17, 2006 - 7:38 AMlol -
whatever -
get a clue and we can try again later . . . . -
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Re: New Tribe - For a Gold Standard
Tue, January 17, 2006 - 8:00 AMIn other words, you're saying that you like stupidity. Thanks for playing. -
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Re: New Tribe - For a Gold Standard
Tue, January 17, 2006 - 8:06 AMLolOlol -
no -
im just pulling your chain -
all you have to do to "stop this" is stop posting -
ok - your turn . . . .
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Re: New Tribe - For a Gold Standard
Mon, January 16, 2006 - 11:59 AM>> Why would the masses want to have something dead and worthless? Oh...because they consider it valuable. >>
for the same reason so many of them go to church every sunday -
- they are ignorant -
i would rather try to educate them than exploit them -
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Re: New Tribe - For a Gold Standard
Mon, January 16, 2006 - 12:01 PM>>for the same reason so many of them go to church every sunday -
- they are ignorant <<
elitism--the vice of all socialists -
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: New Tribe - For a Gold Standard
Mon, January 16, 2006 - 12:09 PM>> elitism--the vice of all socialists
LolOlOOlOlol
good one . . . . -
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Re: New Tribe - For a Gold Standard
Mon, January 16, 2006 - 12:25 PMYou're the one who called people you don't know "ignorant" because they do something that you don't think is valuable. That's elitist.
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Re: New Tribe - For a Gold Standard
Sun, January 15, 2006 - 2:51 PMA gold standard more accurately relates to libertarianism and minarchism.
however, as a previous replier indicated - currency could be used in an anarchy (where the government did not have a monopoly on money). Gresham's Law of money states that gold - or some other backed currency - would eventually be trusted more.
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Re: New Tribe - For a Gold Standard
Wed, March 29, 2006 - 8:04 AM>> how does it relate to anarchy?
Ultimately it means that government should be out of the "money business", a business it currently has a monopoly on. Let the market decide what the best money is. Throughout history, the market has over and over decided that gold is money, much to the dismay of emperors, kings, and (eventually) central bankers, so I'm betting that this will happen again.
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