>>Zigo, you're so patient with them,<<

In finding someone who is willing to go down the detail by detail debate road with me.. I am afforded a great chance to really hone my models, and my ability to really communicate those models to another. The fundamental 'keystoness' of certain types of hypocracies get revealed, unarguable facts or realities show up, and above all,.. the ultimate experiment... Myself and the other unearth a fundamental point, ideal, priority, value, truth that transcends all models.. and then it becomes a conversation not about justifying our repective dogmas, but about creating a more 'fluid' reality where our potentials and freedoms as humans can be most directly and dynamically expressed.

Its an excercise for myself. I am trying to increase my faith and belief in the power of myself and other individuals. For anarchy to work, for a free-market to work.. self-liberated and powerfully participating individuals are needed.

I want to 1).. learn that such 'type' does exist in a human by default so I can truly rest into my current convictions and ideals with empiracal knowledge... and 2) I want to learn how to activate, turn on, or provoke such an individual to the needed realization.

And this is not for anyone else. Its for me. I want the systems, cultures and intellects to evolve into a dynamic where myself and my genetic relatives can most vibrantly evolve. I want to see the full power of this mother fucker unleash. .. for fun.

it's variable, but can be easily grokked on a case by case basis utilizing common sense. trouble is extremist positions held by both the propertarian and communal camps, neither of which i agree with. i've argued the arguments with both of them, and i'm done.

too scott, i'm done bickering with you.